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Mark of Cain, The (2007)
IMDB rating: 6.70
Plot: GULLIVER and TATE – nickname ‘Treacle’ – are two ordinary 18 year-olds serving in the British Army in Iraq. Their platoon is struggling to maintain the uneasy peace of 2003. When their popular company captain, GODBER, is killed on patrol by a roadside bomb, morale in the platoon hits rock bottom. Acting on orders they round up several suspects from house-to-house searches. That night feelings at the camp are running high and as the chain of command is weakened and events spiral out of control. The lads end their tour of duty and return to England full of stories but also shaken by their experiences. Iraq comes back to haunt them when Gulliver’s jilted girlfriend, Shelley, decides to get her own back on him by giving photos of the events in Iraq to the British police. The story hits the press, and Gulliver and Treacle, now the most reviled men in Britain, face court martial. The army claims the two are ‘rotten apples’ acting alone. Guilt-ridden and abandoned, the pressure is too much for a traumatized Treacle. Gulliver, however, is determined to remain loyal to ‘his army’. Only when he is truly alone does he have to decide if he must keep his secrets or explosively have his day in court, and tell the truth about the events of that fateful night.
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Directors: Munden Marc
Actors: Kearns Gerard,McNulty Matthew,Gregory Leo,Dooley Shaun,Dingwall Shaun,Angell Robert,Barclay Roger,Byrne Michael,Casson Ralph,Chapman Matt,Coyle Brendan,Dolan Mike,Gravelle Matthew,Herd Edmund,Drama,
Mormons: since you say the mark of the curse was the black skin, why are black mormons still black?
According to The Book of Mormon, the Lamanites (Native Americans) and blaks supposedly inherited Cain’s curse of black skin:
"And the SKINS of the Lamanites were DARK, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a acurse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, [...]" – Alma 3:6
"And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations." – 1Nephi 12:23
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity [...] wherefore, as they WERE WHITE, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them." – 2 Nephi 5:21
"[...]and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure [white]* and a delightsome people. – 2 Nephi 30:6
*White was the word used in the 1840 edition of the book. It was changed to pure in 1981. My brackets.
According to the book, once a black or dark skin person would embrace the faith, God would change their skin color to white just as he allegedly did to some Lamanites in the past.
"And their curse was taken from them, and their SKIN became WHITE like unto the Nephites;" – 3 Nephi 2:15
No personal attacks on your responses please.
phrog: Please read my question again. It has to do with "the mark of the curse". I know what you teach now compared to your previous prophets such as Brigham Young, which many in your church consider him a racist.
You stated "the dark skin was given as a protection" What for? Please provide scriptures and/or the official stance of the church.
You stated: "nephi also often tried to correct the idea that skin color was part of the curse". How? You may be ignoring 2 Nephi 5:21 which relates to the "SKIN of blackness" not the symbolic nature of the words.
"so skin color had nothing to do with righteousnes." So again, how come it is associated with unrighteousness?
You are still ignoring Alma 3:6 and again I quote: "And THE SKINS of the Lamanites were DARK, ACCORDING TO THE MARK which was set upon their fathers, WHICH WAS A CURSE upon them because of their transgression [...]"
(Caps mine for emphasis.)
phrog: you also stated: "if one reads the BoM thoroughly, it is apparent [...] this was not a generalized idea/action …"
Not the generalized idea?
That the context refers to skin color is verified by a number of LDS leaders including Joseph Smith. Mormon author George D. Smith notes that Joseph Smith was given a revelation which foretold of a day when intermarriage with the Lamanites would produce a white and delightsome posterity. George Smith wrote:
"This unpublished 17 July 1831 revelation was described three decades later in an 1861 letter from W.W. Phelps to Brigham Young quoting Joseph Smith: `It is my will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites, that their posterity, may become white, delightsome and just.’ In the 8 December 1831 Ohio Star, Ezra Booth wrote of a revelation directing Mormon elders to marry with the `natives’" (Sunstone, November 1993, footnote #5, pg. 52).
At the October 1960 LDS Church Conference, Spencer Kimball utilized 2 Nephi 30:6 when he stated how the Indians "are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation" (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3).
LDS writer George Edward Clark wrote an account in his book titled Why I Believe. On page 129 he wrote:
"The writer has been privileged to sit at table with several members of the Catawba tribe of Indians, whose reservation is near the north border of South Carolina. That tribe, or most of its people, are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon). Those Indians, at least as many as I have observed, were WHITE and delightsome, as WHITE AND FAIR as any group of citizens of our country. I know of no prophecy, ancient or modern, that has had a more LITERAL FULFILLMENT."
In a conference message given by Elder Eugene J. Neff in 1927. Referring to Hawaiian members, Neff stated:
"As they [the islanders] all sat around the mat and heard the voice of this missionary from Utah, they were TRANSFIGURED before George Q. Cannon, and he saw ninety-seven of them BECOME WHITE, and three of them REMAINED DARK.
As to the three that remained "dark" he stated: "They are delightsome at present, and I believe they are GOING TO BECOME WHITE. They are growing WHITER from year to year."
So the question remains unanswered, why are black mormons still black?
studlee82: I thank you for your candor. A mormon with flair. As long as you are honest I have no problem with your bluntness.
Ok, I am NOT saying/implying that all LDS/Mormons are racists. I am clearly presenting facts based on the BoM and excerpts from speeches form your previous elders/seers/prophets, etc. etc. etc.
This is NOT a question about racism. It is based on your church’s writings. According to the books of Nephi, Alma, and others, the SIGN of the curse was actually the dark/black SKIN. And as to the Amlicites, it was a red marking that they imposed on themselves.
Again, according to your own prophets/seers/elders/apostles, etc. etc. etc., in their writings and the BoM, they would BECOME WHITE. Do not steer away from the question. Get it?
Question remains unanswered.
PS. If you do not know, just say it. 
Ginger and phrog: Aye, yi, yi!! What can I say? Actually, I do know.
Your typical response is "oh no, you’re misssing the point, you need to look at the meaning in its conext, or it’s all in a spiritual sense…" I am to finish reading the BoM in English AND Spanish, believe me, I know the context.
The writer/s of the book knew exactly he was refering to darkness in the literal sense of the word. What does SKIN mean to you other than the flesh? They knew it was literal as Cannon mentioned in its literal sense.
You keep using phrases like ‘perhaps, maybe, I don’t know for sure, it was there OPINION…’ How different and clear is your works from that of the Bible, the only true word of God. Its writers were truly impelled to write His words and thinking. The Bible stand infallible in spite various interpretations on some subjects. Am I a fool for it? So be it! (2Nephi 29:6)*
It is interesting to note that in this verse the writer uses the word "Bible" when actually the word "Bible" was not invented 400 years A.C.E when the codex was first being used.
As to words being used in spiritual sense, I know exactly what you are talking about. The book of Revelation relates to a great crowd from all nations with white robes standing before the throne (Ch. 7:9); the Lamb riding on a "white horse" (6:2; 19:11) You may also read John 8:12; Philippeans 2:25; Isaiah 60:2; 2Cor. 4:6; Col. 1:13, 14, and many others.
YOUR writings, which you consider to be personal opinions at times are the same ones clearly proving my point. Some of you say no, the black/dark skin was/is not a curse, some have told me that it WAS. I haven’t seen no proof whatsoever in the Bible, that any human being and his "posterity/seed" were cursed with the sign of black skin.
I don’t even see any unity among yourselves on this matter.
The black skin was NOT and never will be a sign of any curse.
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie –
"Negroes in this life are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. (Abra. 1:20-27.) The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them… negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of Spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp. 527-528)
"Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism."
- The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157
It has also been taught in Mormonism that opposite repercussions could result when a white man abandoned his Mormon faith. For instance, the Juvenile Instructor (26:635) reads,
"From this it is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a skin of blackness, and there can be no doubt that this was the mark that Cain himself received; in fact, it has been noticed in our day that men who have lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom his blessings have been withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extend as to excite the comments of all who have known them."
In 1857, Brigham Young declared that apostates would "become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Journal of Discourses 5:332).
Despite the comments from past Mormon leaders, skin color has nothing to do with a person’s spirituality. To say 2 Nephi 30:6 was altered merely for clarification and had nothing to do with skin color is without merit.
It has also been taught in Mormonism that opposite repercussions could result when a white man abandoned his Mormon faith. For instance, the Juvenile Instructor (26:635) reads,
"From this it is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a skin of blackness, and there can be no doubt that this was the mark that Cain himself received; in fact, it has been noticed in our day that men who have lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom his blessings have been withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extend as to excite the comments of all who have known them."
In 1857, Brigham Young declared that apostates would "become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Journal of Discourses 5:332).
Despite the comments from past Mormon leaders, skin color has nothing to do with a person’s spirituality. To say 2 Nephi 30:6 was altered merely for clarification and had nothing to do with skin color is without merit. It was a false prophecy, nothing more, nothing less.
Phrog: AGAIN, I am not saying that now you say the black skin is the curse but rather THE SIGN
As to the references you included I’ll get back at you tomorrow since I don’t have the time now. However, I’ll say now that they have no grounds with what we’re talking about here. I’ll be including Hebrew texts as well as other Bible translations, not just from your KJV.
phrog: Ok, since you have clarified the usage of your biblical references I will not post my repertoire of Hebrew references, other than to say that the KJV does not render correctly the Hebrew word for "black" in some of the instances.
Now. OPINIONS from your prophets and apostles are based from your most sacred and correctly translated BoM. How hard is it to understand something different from what it written in Alma 3:6 – "And the SKINS of the Lamanites were DARK, according to the mark [...] which WAS A CURSE upon them [...]? What other explaination can you give to "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing,[...] the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS [...]"
I mean, do you see my issue really? I think the LDS church need to admit that they were wrong in teaching that black/dark skin was, at least, the RESULT/MARK of the curse upon Cain.
Your prophets/seers/elders/presidents were, and are, representatives of the church, therefore their word was supposed to be God’s stance on the matter.
I’ll finish by saying that there is actually one religious group that did not teach nor practiced segregation while the rest were mainstreaming with this blackness nonsense.
I’ll leave you with a quote from Jeremiah 23:16 – "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD." (KJV)
Thank you.
I saw an angry black guy outside a Mormon temple one day. He was banging on the doors shouting, "Give me back my money, you dirty thieves! I’m still black!"
Desiree | Jan 26, 2010
because black mormons live in a high UV ray area and need the melanin to protect them.. which is something God also gave them
chris b | Jan 26, 2010
They are only interested in amassing wealth. They used to not allow blacks, now they found out that some had some money and political clout.
jekin | Jan 26, 2010
Simple. Black Mormons are still black because Mormonism is a dangerous fiction, just like Christianity, Scientology, Islam, Hinduism, Bahai, Judaism, etc etc etc. It is all a load of crap that is bad for us as a species.
? | Jan 26, 2010
I gotta go with question mark above me. He seems to know what’s going on.
Tullythe | Jan 26, 2010
will be interested in some of the answers you get, I know at one time they did not allow blacks, think that is one of the many reasons I do not belong to that religion any more.Blessings
pops | Jan 26, 2010
I guess the interpretation of "no personal attacks" could be construed to be toward you only, at least it seems so from the posts before me.
I don’t claim to know how it all works, I don’t know why some needed to have different colors of skin but here we are. What I do know is that skin color really can drive a wedge of hatred between people. I would think that in Gods infinite wisdom there is a need for different skin colors. We read about it in the scriptures as being a curse. I would say if you ask a black or asian person in america then yes it has been a curse on them in the way they have been treated because of it. I would say the lesson the Lord has for us to learn from it is how to look past the color of a mans skin into his eyes and into his soul to find the real man hidden underneath. I am LDS and know people of all colors in the church. I would say that there was some hard hearts when the priesthood was extended to all but it would not be the majority. Presdient Young is often misquoted about the black race. The Church has at all times in its history stood for individual rights and freedom where it can be had. I was raised in the western United States and somewhat removed from the prejudices that were prevalent and it was hard for me to accept the divisions when I finally moved to a big city where there were issues. I grew up with teachings to respect others, especially my elders. I was taught that each man has to decide on what he will do and each are valued equally in the eyes of God. Yes I was raised in the church. I was taught to love all men, not to discriminate or judge by the way someone looks but to determine if I would associate myself with them by how they acted.
I would say the "curse" as it were is going to be on those who can not overcome the divide and see the inner heart of a man.
papa smurf | Jan 26, 2010
Well think of it, a white man who invaded this land with all the other invaders thinks he is the only one to bring forth the indians history and not an indian cheif, and acts like the indians are too dumb to know the GOLD plates are hidden in the hill and only he can find them, I mean how racist is that???
Rock UR world | Jan 26, 2010
black skin isn’t a curse. the mark and the curse are two different things – and scripture tells us that the curse is being cut off from the presence of God. the curse of Cain was eternal separation from God. that is the curse, not the skin…….the dark skin was given as a protection.
could the nephites (who wrote the BoM) have been prejudiced against the lamanites? yea. they could. and what exactly does the BoM really say? well, Jacob 3: 5-7 points out that although some may have felt that skin color was a spiritual advantage or not…….jacob makes it plain that the lamanites were full of good and righteous people — so skin color had nothing to do with righteousnes. at the same time, the color of black (NOT the skin) was sometimes used to associate with darkness and evil – the color white (NOT the skin), with purity and good — so some verses reflect this ‘cultural’ whitening (becoming good/purification). nephi also often tried to correct the idea that skin color was part of the curse.
if one reads the BoM thoroughly, (paraphrased from Tvednes) it is apparent that while some seem to have been racist (in that they were repulsed by the skin color of the lamanites) this was not a generalized idea/action……and in fact, instead of promoting racism, the BoM clearly suggests that people of different ethnic/racial backgrounds can overcome hatreds and misconceptions to attain peace, happiness, and unity through the gospel of Jesus Christ. that is the story of the BoM to a world that needs it – even now. I leave you with this scripture from the BoM……….
2 Ne. 26: 33
"For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."
edit: "It has to do with "the mark of the curse". " — exactly my point. your original premise is skewed – LDS do not necessarily "say the mark of the curse was the black skin" as you presume. and the BoM does not say that skin color is a curse.
what I am saying is that yes it is possible that some who wrote the BoM and even after may have had racist views, but that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. the point is that there is a distinction that not all people make – then or now – between the mark and the curse. the mark (first mentioned in referrence to Cain) was given for protection so that none would kill him. there is no reason to believe that changed whether the mark was with Cain or with Lamen.
I did not find the specific stance of the church…..and I am not suggesting I am "gospel truth right", or a representative of anything but myself. I’m just saying this is a possibility I have considered and find compelling.
there is no evidence, other than hearsay (later), to indicate that JS believed skin color = inferior (racism). however, there
is clear evidence that he considered blacks to be just as capable as whites, given the same opportunities — and he favored freeing the slaves, as well as ordained some blacks to the priesthood himself. BY’s comments do sometimes have the feel of racism, but in my experience, when one really researches them – they have proven to be NOT so much racist. perhaps cannon was seeing them age – gaining white hair and growing older….I did not see what he saw. we are a physical being and require information be given to us in a manner conducive to learning as we are….and it may be that black and white is the easiest way for us to get this information. does that mean that we as LDS believe that skin color will literally change? Ephraim of Syria commented on Philip
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